CIC Association

Serving Community Enterprise

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Accounts Group

For any accounting related queries, including accounts software package questions, grants and trading income treatment, HMRC or Companies House queries/issues, tax reliefs for CICs, links to useful finance information etc

Members: 139
Latest Activity: on Monday

Discussion Forum

Grant funds balance sheet 8 Replies

HiWe are in the process of preparing our year end accounts, prepared by our Treasurer and verified by an accountant not linked to our organisation (as is often required by grant funders) We can not…Continue

Started by Lucie Brooke. Last reply by Lucie Brooke on Monday.

CIC Dormant Company declaration help needed 2 Replies

Would anyone able to give me information how to declare a CIC company dormant for a year? If a company becomes dormant whether administration fees ( company accounts submission fees, accountant fees)…Continue

Started by Subrata Saha. Last reply by Subrata Saha Nov 25.

VAT on solar installation 1 Reply

If our CIC were to get funding for a solar panel installation, would we need to pay VAT and, if so, at what rate? I understand that for a domestic residence it would be 5%, and for a company it would…Continue

Started by Debbie La-Haye. Last reply by John Mulkerrin Nov 16.

What is the simplest accounts format I can use? 2 Replies

I am required to submit our first accounts for a very small CIC, that provides piped spring water to 20 properties. Our income from users contributions for 16/17, was £700 and our outgoings were…Continue

Started by Michael Walton Bell. Last reply by Michael Walton Bell Nov 14.

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Comment by John Mulkerrin on July 31, 2012 at 12:29

@Angela, good luck with your journey taking things forward.

That project with your local GP would definitely constitute an Industry Link/Sector partner, but Id suggest you actually ask the person who said it to expand as nobody else will really be able to give you an answer as to what was meant.

A wealth of funding is 'available' to everyone, mostly you will have to compete for it and understanding what is and isnt worth pursuing can make all the difference.

Comment by COJOSA UK-IRL on November 1, 2011 at 13:01

Hi- I am looking for help within areas of fundraising. If you have any suggestions regarding getting grants and which organisations to approach will very much appreciate it. thanks

 

Comment by Terry Atkinson on October 24, 2011 at 13:32

Hi everyone

We are an accountancy c.i.c. based in the north east of England. We provide low cost accountancy support for third sector organisations in Durham, Northumberland & Tyne & Wear tel 0191 3874469

Comment by Dick Maule FCA on September 30, 2011 at 11:15

For small tax issues in the not for profit sector IR regulations will allow 5 year exemption from filing when a dormant signal is appropriate.[i.e. CT is due on bank interest only and the CT is under £100].

I am finding a surprising lack of hassle getting the revenue to agree to this....

 

Comment by Margaret Manuell on September 28, 2011 at 19:46
Hi Alastair. We actually don't make a profit - what comes in is what goes out. Technically we made a loss in each of the last two years. We hold a small reserve for emergencies. Most of our income is from funding; otherwise we charge our services at cost.
Comment by Alastair Irvine on September 28, 2011 at 15:25

Margaret, what you describe sounds like you're claiming that the CIC is "not trading with a view to making profit" and thus is taxed only on interest income.

I would be careful with this, as most social social enterprises do trade with a view to making a profit, they just do nice things with the profit. HMRC is unlikely to question this but could, so this will not apply to all CICs.

Comment by Margaret Manuell on August 17, 2011 at 15:03

Hi 

Our problem was eventually solved by an accountancy firm acting as our tax agent pro bono. Because of the nature of our activities and the fact that directors/members are volunteers and receive no share payments, all income being returned to further our community work, we are counted as non-trading and only have to pay tax on any interest (if any) we earn from reserves.  I thought this might be of interest to other similarly set-up c.i.c.s

Comment by Margaret Manuell on June 4, 2011 at 0:03

Hi Heidi

Thanks for your reply.  Unfortunately this year they have changed CT600 and it no longer looks like it did.  It's no longer an online form but a downloaded Adobe pdf with encrypted permissions, which requires either Adobe 9 or 10X. I filled the old online form without problems last year & sent up the pdf documents in support.  This year the form is more complex.  It asks for full details of directors. It also requires information about accounting models and depreciation rules and lots of other stuff in supplementary boxes, before going on to profit & loss (by which time it's reached number AC 12, and instead of a simple turnover and expenses declaration, each is broken down into sub divisions that mostly don't have anything to do with our activities.  I will try just putting in our gross figures and see if the form will accept them, if not we'll have to pass the hat round to pay for an accountant. 

Margaret

Comment by Heidi Fisher on June 3, 2011 at 14:08

Hi Margaret

You can use the forms that HMRC provide online to complete your tax return.  This will enable you to also submit the accounts in the right format for HMRC.  To do this you would need to be registered with HMRC's online services.  There is a demo of their system (I'm not sure how good it is!) at http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/demo/organisation/corporation-tax/

 

In relation to the income and expenditure categories, you would be entering your income under Turnover at Box 1 (assuming that it is not Government grants that are not taxable), and then entering your surplus at Box 3 and again at Box 5.  If you have no other income or losses then this figure is also entered at Box 21 and 37.  Then you would need to calculate the tax payable.

 

If you are still having difficulty completing this using their online system, it may be that you need to get an accountant to file this for you.  From 1 April the accounts have to be submitted in IXBRL format and the tax returns must be submitted online, so its not as straight forward as it used to be.

Comment by Margaret Manuell on June 2, 2011 at 21:37
Hi - I'm looking for help.  Form CT600  defeats me completely & don't know how to proceed. We are a 'not-for-profit' social enterprise. None of our directors are paid as directors and they hold no shares. Any cash remaining at the end of the year is put towards future services. We operate an income and expenditure account, showing income from funding, local partnership service agreements and a small amount from donations, and occasional stall selling or raffling gifted items and small purchases, and expenses including free-lance practitioner fees. We have no staff and do not have the funds to employ an accountant.
Our "profit" last accounting year was less that £600, and apart from about £4000 of equipment bought, mostly from funding, or inherited from our previous existence as a constituted association, and we have no other assets.   I filed our simple accounts and did the required company report at CH months ago but am absolutely stuck on the tax returns to HMR&C. Last year I was able to upload our pdf documents - copies of what we returned to CH - and using a simple online form which has now been superseded. We are finding it very difficult to fill in tax form CT600 because so many of the categories do not match the sort of income and expenditure categories applicable to us, and the notes aren't very enlightening. Basically, nothing fits.  I've tried my best, I keep getting the dreaded red boxes telling me there are errors. 
 I've calculated the tax owing and paid it, but the cut-off date for filing the returns is looming.  Can you advise us of any other way that small community interest companies can submit accounts to HMR&C other than by CT600.  The information on directors has already been filed at CH.
 

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