CIC Association

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Accounts Group

For any accounting related queries, including accounts software package questions, grants and trading income treatment, HMRC or Companies House queries/issues, tax reliefs for CICs, links to useful finance information etc

Members: 89
Latest Activity: Jun 24

Discussion Forum

Accounting treatment of restricted grants 5 Replies

Hello everyone - I do the books for an arts CIC and, since we are small, I also produce and file the statutory accounts. Much of our funding is from project-based grants from non-government…Continue

Started by Jenny Tompsett. Last reply by Dick Maule FCA May 18.

Is there a need for an accountant to complete the accounts? 1 Reply

Hi all, new to the CIC industry etc...  Was wondering is there a need for an accountant to complete the accounts? My accounts will be simple. Basically a small grant coming in to buy products and…Continue

Started by Ajmal Aziz. Last reply by John Mulkerrin Apr 30.

Problems with account filing 2 Replies

Hi there, it seems impossible to find anyone locally who can do our accounts as a cic - every accountant i've spoken with doesn't know much about them and although we found someone to take them on -…Continue

Started by emily kelly. Last reply by Heidi Harris Apr 20.

Advice on accounts keeping for a new CIC 3 Replies

Hello, We are a newly incorporated CIC based in East Sussex, and we are about to apply for funds with a Foundation in The Netherlands for approximately 60,000 euros a year.Our first activity will…Continue

Tags: fees, accounts

Started by Claudia Fontes. Last reply by Claudia Fontes Apr 2.

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Comment by John Mulkerrin on July 31, 2012 at 12:29

@Angela, good luck with your journey taking things forward.

That project with your local GP would definitely constitute an Industry Link/Sector partner, but Id suggest you actually ask the person who said it to expand as nobody else will really be able to give you an answer as to what was meant.

A wealth of funding is 'available' to everyone, mostly you will have to compete for it and understanding what is and isnt worth pursuing can make all the difference.

Comment by Jane Kite on December 7, 2011 at 13:48

Hello - I am preparing the first years accounts for a music therapy CIC and this is also my first time at preparing accounts for a CIC. I have modelled them on "Jones Sample Accounts Limited" from HMRC and we do not need an audit. My question is - is this the correct format for the P&L ie with turnover etc as per Company Law?  It's just that I am used to preparing charity accounts with incoming resources and unrestricted/restricted funds etc.  Also, as we are limited by guarantee what is the correct heading on the balance sheet for Capital and reserves as all we have is a profit and loss account?  Please don't suggest I go to an accountant as these are my only questions and we have very little cash.

Thank you in advance

Jane

Comment by COJOSA UK-IRL on November 1, 2011 at 13:01

Hi- I am looking for help within areas of fundraising. If you have any suggestions regarding getting grants and which organisations to approach will very much appreciate it. thanks

 

Comment by Terry Atkinson on October 24, 2011 at 13:32

Hi everyone

We are an accountancy c.i.c. based in the north east of England. We provide low cost accountancy support for third sector organisations in Durham, Northumberland & Tyne & Wear tel 0191 3874469

Comment by Dick Maule FCA on September 30, 2011 at 11:15

For small tax issues in the not for profit sector IR regulations will allow 5 year exemption from filing when a dormant signal is appropriate.[i.e. CT is due on bank interest only and the CT is under £100].

I am finding a surprising lack of hassle getting the revenue to agree to this....

 

Comment by Margaret Manuell on September 28, 2011 at 19:46
Hi Alastair. We actually don't make a profit - what comes in is what goes out. Technically we made a loss in each of the last two years. We hold a small reserve for emergencies. Most of our income is from funding; otherwise we charge our services at cost.
Comment by Alastair Irvine on September 28, 2011 at 15:25

Margaret, what you describe sounds like you're claiming that the CIC is "not trading with a view to making profit" and thus is taxed only on interest income.

I would be careful with this, as most social social enterprises do trade with a view to making a profit, they just do nice things with the profit. HMRC is unlikely to question this but could, so this will not apply to all CICs.

Comment by Margaret Manuell on August 17, 2011 at 15:03

Hi 

Our problem was eventually solved by an accountancy firm acting as our tax agent pro bono. Because of the nature of our activities and the fact that directors/members are volunteers and receive no share payments, all income being returned to further our community work, we are counted as non-trading and only have to pay tax on any interest (if any) we earn from reserves.  I thought this might be of interest to other similarly set-up c.i.c.s

Comment by Margaret Manuell on June 4, 2011 at 0:03

Hi Heidi

Thanks for your reply.  Unfortunately this year they have changed CT600 and it no longer looks like it did.  It's no longer an online form but a downloaded Adobe pdf with encrypted permissions, which requires either Adobe 9 or 10X. I filled the old online form without problems last year & sent up the pdf documents in support.  This year the form is more complex.  It asks for full details of directors. It also requires information about accounting models and depreciation rules and lots of other stuff in supplementary boxes, before going on to profit & loss (by which time it's reached number AC 12, and instead of a simple turnover and expenses declaration, each is broken down into sub divisions that mostly don't have anything to do with our activities.  I will try just putting in our gross figures and see if the form will accept them, if not we'll have to pass the hat round to pay for an accountant. 

Margaret

Comment by Heidi Harris on June 3, 2011 at 14:08

Hi Margaret

You can use the forms that HMRC provide online to complete your tax return.  This will enable you to also submit the accounts in the right format for HMRC.  To do this you would need to be registered with HMRC's online services.  There is a demo of their system (I'm not sure how good it is!) at http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/demo/organisation/corporation-tax/

 

In relation to the income and expenditure categories, you would be entering your income under Turnover at Box 1 (assuming that it is not Government grants that are not taxable), and then entering your surplus at Box 3 and again at Box 5.  If you have no other income or losses then this figure is also entered at Box 21 and 37.  Then you would need to calculate the tax payable.

 

If you are still having difficulty completing this using their online system, it may be that you need to get an accountant to file this for you.  From 1 April the accounts have to be submitted in IXBRL format and the tax returns must be submitted online, so its not as straight forward as it used to be.

 

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