CIC Association

Serving Community Enterprise

Mark Trotter
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  • ST. AUSTELL
  • United Kingdom
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CIC to LTD ethical?
6 Replies

It may seem strange - a CIC Director has informed me that they are going through the process of closing a very successful CIC, migrating the contracted workload to their LTD because the surplus is…Continue

Started this discussion. Last reply by Mark Trotter Feb 21.

Funding through Procurement 2012
1 Reply

It has been a 30 year journey raising money and creating market opportunities for not for profits and social enterprises across the UK and Africa/South America. Yet I am still amazed by the cynical…Continue

Tags: Social, Enterprise, competition, bidding, tendering

Started this discussion. Last reply by John Mulkerrin Feb 13, 2012.

Just saying Hi!
6 Replies

Well after more than 20 years working in community enterprises meeting the challenges of government and EU opportunities - I decided to it was time to compete. I have been involved in writing and…Continue

Started this discussion. Last reply by Daniel Thompson Oct 24, 2011.

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Mark Trotter replied to Mark Trotter's discussion CIC to LTD ethical?
"Hi John - I know but it appears from discussing with them how they were set up in the first place the original directors were split on the best structure. The two that wanted the CIC structure became annoyed with how things were run and resigned. So…"
Feb 21
John Mulkerrin replied to Mark Trotter's discussion CIC to LTD ethical?
"Indeed, I think a detailed letter from them into the CIC Regulator would be best. Cant see how they would be advised that was an appropriate route, its very clear in technical guidance about the asset lock. However, being a CIC and not a LTD is…"
Feb 21
Mark Trotter replied to John Mulkerrin's discussion £240m health contract awarded to CIC
"Hi John - a great step forward in many ways demonstrating that the statutory disembalance of public services naturally migrates to the CIC model.  In real budget terms it is a small contract over the 7 years but it is an indicator for any CIC…"
Feb 20
Mark Trotter replied to Mark Trotter's discussion CIC to LTD ethical?
"Hi John - it appears that the advise was given at the start of the CIC and that this would be an approved route for development. Did your examples come from the same region of the country? Or is this just consultants not knowing what they are…"
Feb 20
Mark Trotter replied to Mark Trotter's discussion CIC to LTD ethical?
"I know but they have been advised that this is the way forward for them.  Also the point about the value of the contracts is lost on them, as the contract can't novate either I think that it is just a matter of repeating the points and…"
Feb 20
John Mulkerrin replied to Mark Trotter's discussion CIC to LTD ethical?
"IE: Just passing the existing surplus to their community of interest and not the value of the contracts would be a contravention of their duties as Directors and make them personally liable. Caution!"
Feb 20
John Mulkerrin replied to Mark Trotter's discussion CIC to LTD ethical?
"Hmm, the value of the contracts constitute a transfer of asset so that would have to be priced into the amount to go to their designated community. They should not be operating for the betterment of another organisation, obviously very technical so…"
Feb 20
Mark Trotter posted a discussion

CIC to LTD ethical?

It may seem strange - a CIC Director has informed me that they are going through the process of closing a very successful CIC, migrating the contracted workload to their LTD because the surplus is part of their CIC asset lock. My statement to them was simple my business with them won't move to the new LTD. They can voluntarily close the CIC. The Locked assets will go to the the designated community cause but all future operations and goodwill follows the directors. Personally I struggle with…See More
Feb 18
Mark Trotter commented on Mark Trotter's group Procurement Support
"Hi John, Concensus remains, buyers want contracts that delvier consistently - again another project that pays in arrears and can lead to cash hold ups for suppliers. Better off creating a small local network and doing it yourself. I looked…"
Jan 18
Mark Trotter commented on Mark Trotter's blog post Funding Crisis for Social Enterprise continues
"Social Investment by companies comes in two ways - the application of existing resources and in cash terms.  This approach has been adopted to create an exclusive venture with a local business, to ensure a seamless service the business owner…"
Jan 18
Mark Trotter commented on Mark Trotter's group Procurement Support
"Hi John NEPRO and NEPO are past endeavours and in my experience the social enterprise has always been more effective on its own - offering products directly. I read the Bloom website information and will check with a couple of colleagues to see if…"
Jan 18
John Mulkerrin commented on Mark Trotter's blog post Funding Crisis for Social Enterprise continues
"Hi Mark Great post, can you tell us more on how the organisation mentioned enables local businesses to invest?"
Jan 18
John Mulkerrin commented on Mark Trotter's group Procurement Support
"Hi Mark Have you worked with Bloom services for public sector procurement before? John"
Jan 18
Mark Trotter commented on Mark Hadley's blog post Problems with being a CIC limited by shares,compared to being limited by guarantee - Help!
"Wow, what a pickle. There are solutions to the problem, the most effective is to look at whether your CIC is actually appropriately constituted.  A CIC should not be dependent on gant funding. This is the very clear mandate of the Social…"
Jan 18
Mark Trotter commented on Robert Ashton's blog post Would you buy steak from a vegetarian butcher?
"Hi Robert An interesting concept, the apprenticeship levy has become the biggest barrier to investment in training when the same courses can be completed using alternative funding by employers and learners.  Using the Adult Learner Loan system…"
Jan 18
Mark Trotter joined John Mulkerrin's group
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CICs seeking investment

If you would like the Association to get involved with helping you raise funds, please register your interest here and we will contact you to discuss your individual requirements. CIC Association recommends for start ups/small projects :Awards for All(Not for profit-3 Directors required, up to £10k) Unltd (For funding…See More
Jan 18

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PL254UW
If you have a website, what is your web address?
http://markptrotter.co.uk
Are you interested in representing a CIC at the CIC Association AGM?
Yes
Are you interested in working in partnership with the CIC Association?
Yes

Mark Trotter's Blog

Funding Crisis for Social Enterprise continues



The reality is that due to the competitve structure of so many Charity Trading arms CICs and other social enterprise models are in a worse state.

Why? because the message of the CIC model has become confused. Recently a Health Care practice asked for my advice and that of a Social enterprise advisor on what would be their best model for future funding support?

Oh, the start-up grant was there for the CIC, but the model has no extention value if the funding criteria on future…

Continue

Posted on January 18, 2019 at 12:09 — 2 Comments

Social Outcomes - Localism adds value

The Public Sector measure many of their contract values in terms of price and not impact; to date procurement has settled on best price calculated on lowest price linked to quality.

NOW THEY CATCHUP TOOLS ARE IN PLACE.

Lets start by dispelling the a myth and recognise localism isn't just about proximity, the impact and benefits in the local community are critical to the overall value of your response. What sort of things can you…

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Posted on October 2, 2013 at 10:16 — 4 Comments

The Public Services Act 2012

January 2013 is a watershed for social enterprise and community focused service providers because the Public Services Act 2012 created a level playing field for public sector competitive tendering.

Price has been a core driver in procurement for many years, lowest price has appeared to be the key differentiator with SME's and social enterprises struggling to compete with larger employers who draw on economies of scale and multiple contracts to share overheads.

The Public…

Continue

Posted on September 23, 2013 at 10:04

Becoming Tender Ready

For most companies becoming tender ready is a challenge but for CIC's it is an extension of existing practices.

 

Here's a quick list of things to gather together:

 

  1. Financial Information - be ready with previous years accounts, company structure and financial controls. This includes past accounts, cashflow forecasts, profit and loss reconciled to a monthly management statement.
  2. Corporate Governance information - structure, compliance and…
Continue

Posted on August 14, 2013 at 15:10

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At 14:03 on July 10, 2013, Heidi Fisher said…

Hi Mark, you are more than welcome to attend the event, and it would be great if you recommended it to others.  At the moment we have presenters for all the workshops, but there may be some availability in the drop-in sessions (where attendees get to talk to different experts and advisers, and have their questions answered).

 
 
 

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